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Author Topic: Time for Harper to go?  (Read 2316 times)

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Shit machine gun

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Time for Harper to go?
« on: Nov 23, 2006, 07:18 AM »
PM moves to make Quebec a nation within Canada
By JOAN BRYDEN

Prime Minister Stephen Harper (centre) receives a standing ovation as he introduces a motion to recognize that Quebecers form a nation within Canada during a speech in the House of Commons on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Wednesday Nov. 22, 2006.(CP PHOTO/Jonathan Hayward)

Motion potential step in plan to rebalance federalism
   
Harper scores points in unity debate
   
Charest welcomes Tory motion
   
Text of Harper's address to the Commons

OTTAWA (CP) - Prime Minister Stephen Harper moved to defuse a potential national unity time bomb Wednesday by introducing a motion to recognize that Quebecers form a nation within a united Canada.

The surprise move in the House of Commons was a pre-emptive strike against the separatist Bloc Quebecois which is set to debate its own motion Thursday calling on Parliament to recognize Quebecers as a nation - but with no mention of Canada.

It also trumped the Liberals, who've been squabbling for weeks over their own resolution calling for recognition of Quebec as a nation and for creation of a task force to look at the best way to "officialize" that status.

The Liberal resolution, proposed by the Quebec wing of the party, has bitterly divided the eight leadership contenders and threatened to rupture the party's leadership convention next week. A meeting early Wednesday among the candidates and interim leader Bill Graham brought them no closer to a compromise that all could live with.

But Harper, acting less than 24 hours after the Bloc forced the issue onto the parliamentary agenda, appeared to find the compromise wording that eluded the Liberals.

He won a standing ovation in the Commons for his proposal - and the support of the Liberals and NDP.
   

Conservative strategists also hope Harper's decisive approach will restore some of the Tories' lustre in Quebec, making them a more palatable federalist alternative than the warring Liberals.

The Tories are currently languishing in third place in the polls in Quebec, after enjoying a brief honeymoon following last winter's election.

Until now, Harper has refused to use the word "nation" to describe Quebec, dismissing the debate as "semantics." He said Wednesday that he still believes it's not up to the federal government to define Quebec's identity but, since the Bloc forced the issue, he had to take a position.

"Our position is clear. Do the Quebecois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Quebecois form an independent nation? The answer is no and the answer will always be no."

He added that it may be a good thing that the Bloc forced the issue "because it reminds us that all Canadians have a say in the future of this country."

Harper said his motion simply recognizes historic reality while the intent of Bloc motion is more subversive: "It's not to recognize what Quebecers are, but what sovereigntists would like them to be.

"For the Bloc, it's not a matter of Quebec as a nation - the National Assembly has already pronounced itself on that. It's about separation. For them, 'nation' means 'separation."'

Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe angrily rejected Harper's motion, declaring that Quebecers will never accept conditions on their identity; they constitute a nation whether or not they stay in Canada.

"We are what we are. Full stop," he said.

NDP Leader Jack Layton said his party will support both the Bloc and government motions.

The Liberals were left in an awkward position. Graham said Liberal MPs will meet Thursday to discuss Harper's motion but he expressed confidence they will unite behind it.

However, at least one Liberal, Jim Karygiannis, said he would oppose it.

"Are we going to have a Greek nation within Canada, a Ukrainian nation within Canada, a Chinese nation within Canada? Sorry, Canada is the nation," Karygiannis asked.

Harper's motion will likely be debated and voted upon on Monday, before the vote on the Bloc motion and two days before the Liberal convention begins in Montreal.

Supporters of leadership front-runner Michael Ignatieff, the only contender to wholeheartedly endorse the Liberal resolution on Quebec nationhood, were jubilant, privately claiming Harper's move vindicates Ignatieff and guarantees he'll win the party crown.

Ignatieff has been hammered by his rivals, who've accused him of playing into separatist hands and leading the country down the path to another round of divisive constitutional wrangling.

Ignatieff himself took credit for getting the ball rolling on recognition of Quebec as a nation.

"I think it's a good day for Canada. That is to say, I'm proud of the way in which the Liberal party and my candidacy listened to Quebec," he said.

Harper's proposal also won the approval of Stephane Dion, the lone Quebec contender who has fiercely criticized the Liberal approach on the issue. He said Harper's motion is "very close" to a compromise he's been floating among Liberal leadership candidates.

Dion said Harper's recognition of Quebecers as a nation, is more in keeping with the sociological sense of the word, whereas the Liberal resolution is more ambiguous, suggesting Quebec is a "nation-state."

Bob Rae, Ignatieff's principal opponent, declined to comment on Harper's proposal.

"Mr. Rae wants to consider the implications of Mr. Harper's proposal and hear from caucus members today and tomorrow," said spokesman Alex Swann.

Excerpts from the address of Prime Minister Stephen Harper to the House of Commons on Wednesday about Quebec and nationhood:

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow the Bloc Quebecois will present the House with an unusual request that we here at the federal Parliament define the Quebecois nation.

As a consequence, with the support of the government and with the support of our party, I will be putting on the Notice Paper later today the following motion. . . .

That this House recognize that the Quebecois form a nation within a united Canada. . . .

Once again, the leader of the Bloc and his separatist friends are not concerned with defining who Quebecers are but rather what they want them to become, a separate country.

The separatists do not need the Parliament of Canada to define what is meant by the sociological termination. My preference has been well known. I believe that this is not the job of the federal Parliament. It is the job of the legislature of Quebec, but the Bloc Quebecois has asked us to define this and perhaps that is a good thing, because it reminds us that all Canadians have a say in the future of this country.

Having been asked by the Bloc to define the Quebecois, we must take a position. Our position is clear. Do the Quebecois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Quebecois form an independent nation? The answer is no, and the answer will always be no, because Quebecers of all political persuasions, from Cartier and Laurier to Mulroney and Trudeau, have led this country, and millions like them of all political persuasions have helped to build it.

With their English-and French-speaking fellow citizens, and people drawn from all nationalities of this earth, they have been part of making this country what it is, the greatest country in the world.

To millions more who live in a dangerous and dividing world, this country is a shining example of the harmony and unity to which all peoples are capable and to which all humanity should aspire.

I say to my federalist colleagues and I also say to the separatist side that we here will do what we must, what our forefathers have always done to preserve this country, Canada, strong, united, independent and free.
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shake

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 23, 2006, 09:22 AM »
Well yes it is time for Harper to go, actually it was a while ago, but not because of this article you posted.  All the parties agreed with this, except the Bloc of course.  This really shouldn't change anything in any real way.

Shit machine gun

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 23, 2006, 09:23 AM »
I don't agree with anything he's done.  Let the bloc argue for separation, it ain't gonna happen. 


Editorial from the Ottawa Sun:
Quote
« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2006, 09:50 AM by Shit machine gun »

trailerchick

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 23, 2006, 07:41 PM »
Get rid of him and his bullshit government.

trailerchick

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 23, 2006, 08:31 PM »
A worthwhile read. Sums up exactly why Harper and his ilk should be tossed out at the next available opportunity.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061127/hedges

drunkasfuck

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 23, 2006, 09:09 PM »
The Canadian government needs a change from either conservative or liberal. I am a liberal but i think we need a refresher how can we bash the green party is we haven't given them a try yet. plus if a referendum for Quebec to cede from the country i think military action would ensue. thats my 2 cents. maybe not worth that much but oh well.

walterx2

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 24, 2006, 01:13 AM »
A worthwhile read. Sums up exactly why Harper and his ilk should be tossed out at the next available opportunity.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061127/hedges
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shake

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 24, 2006, 08:41 AM »
Good article TC.

From it

"He (Harper) too has no clear mandate to transform Canada, but this has not stopped his minority government from steadily undermining social programs and a once enlightened foreign policy that liberal Americans could only envy."

I remember before the last election people were saying the Cons won't be able to do any damage with a minority government, I warned them that they'd be sorry if the Cons were elected. 

Dump Bees

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 28, 2006, 12:42 PM »
I like Harper.  He actually stands for something which is refreshing in this country. 

As for enlightend foreign policy?

Which one was that again?  Oh right the one where we always took the easy road, never did anything and then patted ourselves on the back for being so righteous.  Boy I sure miss those days. Something to be proud of for sure.

Gets a bit tired hearing the "Bush Clone" crap.  I guess if you repeat it enough you can actually believe it.


trailerchick

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 28, 2006, 10:03 PM »
Please DumpBees I am interested to know what Harper "stands for"?
« Last Edit: Nov 29, 2006, 02:08 AM by trailerchick »

Huntsville_Bubbles

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 28, 2006, 10:23 PM »

Umm.. I don't know if this is true or not.. or who the fuck told me this.. but somebody once mentioned to me that Mr. Harper has some relation to Robb Wells in real life... I think they said Mr. Harper is Robb's uncle... not sure..

Is there any truth to that??  :-s
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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #11 on: Nov 28, 2006, 10:32 PM »
There has been a thread or two of the Rob Wells and Harper connection HVB.  Here is a link to one of the threads. But I do not know if the links that Bajjer provided still work  :bubs:

http://www.trailerparkboys.org/forums/index.php?topic=4252.0

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shake

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #12 on: Nov 28, 2006, 10:35 PM »
Good work David.  Distant cousin is the connection.  Remember HB we have a search function here at the Org :P

Huntsville_Bubbles

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« Reply #13 on: Nov 28, 2006, 10:50 PM »

True, true... my bad...

...but.. you also have a lazy Bubbles impersonator on the ORG too, Shake..  :P

shake

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #14 on: Nov 28, 2006, 10:58 PM »
If Bubbles was real he would use the search, impersonate that.  Sharpest guy in the park don't you know :P

Drunk_As_Fuck

Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #15 on: Nov 28, 2006, 11:30 PM »
Hmmmmmm...... Harper running Kittyland right beside Ricky's Used Shit and Bub's run the entire country of Canada with the assistance or Ricky or Julian.  Mow THAT would be interested - definately worthy of some more Stever Roger's interviews. 

Bub's platform could be "a kitty in every house" and working shopping cars at every mall".  Harpers could be "I'm running Kittyland and for $15 a pussy one day here no one even wants to give me any pussy here.

Perfect way to begin the "Bubbles For Conservative Prime Minister" campain for the next federal election ;)

This could work ......... bub's criminal record makes him the perfect politician.  He knows about legal agreements from his work drafting the peace agreement between Lahey in the boys in S6.  Laywers are crooks and then they become crooked politician so that would fly in the public eye.

Ricky could the be the Conservative Health Minister and lobby to legalize weed and hash in Canada for non-medical applications as well.  Betchya he could develop the supply chain and logistics needed to move this legal dope to supply the legal weed stores. Shopping cars will be seen on flatbed trucks all over Canada!

Julian can campain be the Conservative finance mister as he's allways got a plan to get some money togehter and mostly screw over others to do so.  Lost of small scams to trick the taxpayers of Canada - keep the crimes of extra taxes small but do lots of them ............ stay uner the radar and not attact attention as they slowly break the law for their own benefit.  Is that not what a finance minister does already?

So there ya go ....... each of the TPB DOES already have a skillset that is very transferable to the governmentorial systems already in place.  Besides ..... the shitmobile is gonna look kick ass in the procession where they take all the official cars and meet the queen.  Ricky had better had a lot of ignition spray that day!

So ;et's see if you can ge the boys on the conversavtive ticket for the next fed election ........ assuming they're no in jail at the time;).

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« Reply #16 on: Nov 29, 2006, 01:00 AM »

He MAY be the smartest guy in the park, Shake... but I sure as fuck aint!  :lol:

Dump Bees

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #17 on: Nov 30, 2006, 09:33 AM »
Quote
Please DumpBees I am interested to know what Harper "stands for"?

I think he stands by his convictions.  He has made some announcements that while unpopular with some (including myself) he felt needed to be made.  Its quite refreshing to see a governent actually do something instead of just siting on the fence seeing which way the wind blows.  Hello Liberal Party! 

He stands for our military and our NATO commitments.  The Liberals and PC's decimated our military and its going to take years to get it back where it needs to be.  I like his stand on what our Armed Forces need to to be in this new world of ours. 



trailerchick

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« Reply #18 on: Nov 30, 2006, 07:34 PM »
Thanks for the response DumpBees!

A few thoughts of my own.

On Fence sitting:

If the will of the people conflicts with the PM's then he puts himself in a position of conflict with the populace.And if said leader proceeds to exert his will despite the people's objections he comes off as arrogant and condescending. In a democracy that includes many differing viewpoints I think Politicians who want to be elected or re-elected often come to realize that middle of the road is the safest course. Is this a perfect scenario? Probably not,but I think it's realistic given the ideals of democracy.

When I look at Harper I see an ideologue and not a Politician representing the people. When half your Country has issue with our presence in Afghanistan then you bloody well better have a debate on the issue before you make a decision.And I'm talking about a real debate,not a hastily pulled together one that gives no one else the chance to be prepared with their arguments.We were under no imminent threat. There is no reason that more thoughtful consideration wasn't taken to fully weigh out the consequences of our actions before we asked our Nations Mother's to send their children to war. Instead before we even had a chance to absorb the complexities we were suddenly "at war" as it were.

Kyoto:

Harper says he's going to scrap it and true to his word he does. BUT before he does, he presents to the populace that while he believes Kyoto doesn't work ,if you elect his government they will put together an environmental package to replace Kyoto, one in fact that will be even better. Fair enough.
But this is not what has happened. To date his Government has come up with squat.
We received a failing grade from the Sierra club this year and Rona Ambrose seems to have a nasty habit of skipping important Environmental conferences. I mean shit, if you aren't even going to sit at the table then what makes you think you should have any input at all?
It shows me that they have no alternative and don't plan on getting one anytime soon. This can only mean two things; either they are stupid or, they have a completely different agenda.
I think it's the latter.I mean does anyone else think it's strange that our Environment Minister hails from the one Province that will benefit the most from lax environmental laws? I get that oil means money but at what cost?

And then there was the Global Aids conference in which Harper refused to attend.It was only afterwords when he got public shit for it did he come up with some lame excuse. Ya..he was "securing " the North  :roll:

I think a reporter summed it up best

Quote
"Prime Minister Stephen Harper should be ashamed of himself for declining to attend the International AIDS Conference currently taking place in Toronto. At a time when Canada is centre stage and has the opportunity to play a leadership role in fighting HIV-AIDS, Harper's absence is baffling and unforgivable."

As for having "courage of his convictions" I don't buy it at all. This from a man that obstructs the media at every opportunity. If he truly did have conviction in his ideals he would not be afraid to air them out for public consumption.

His solution to the daycare issue has turned out to be a joke. Ya, sure my sis likes the extra $100 a month but it hasn't made it any easier to get quality care for her daughter...it didn't move her up on the waiting list. It did absolutely nothing to address the lack of quality and spaces available.

I could go on and on,but I'll spare everyone.

In the end I think this Government is going to harm us more than help us. No doubt we have huge issue's facing us. We need leaders not ideologues.

I appreciate your thoughts Dumpbees,I just don't agree.


Shit machine gun

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Time for Harper to go?
« Reply #19 on: Nov 30, 2006, 07:52 PM »
FUck you smart girl. 

Out with Harper, bring on the Green party.

trailerchick

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« Reply #20 on: Nov 30, 2006, 08:30 PM »
The only problem for the Greens or any Party that wants to have a viable shot at governing is the system doesn't allow for the separation of Business and State. In a Capitalistic Democracy the will of the "Corporation" is intrinsically entwined with the will of the people {Government}

The people "will' gas for their cars.  Corporation is only happy enough to oblige by killing boreal forests and destroying our ecosystem.

The people "will" cheap goods.

Corporation is only to happy to oblige by moving their factories to third world countries to take advantage of slave labour wages. Bye bye Canadian manufacturing jobs...hello shitty products from China that break so we are forced to replace them again and again.

We,the people, are the problem.


Jonnyboy

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« Reply #21 on: Nov 30, 2006, 08:39 PM »
The Greens are too much of a grassroots party, much like the old NDP (And partly still is) that is why niether party really gets anywhere.

Now I hate the Con victs as much as well a lot of you, but I do like that they are taking care of our military, funding despretly needed. Aside from that they fail in my books.

Now with them trying to bring the Same sex debate back on the table, thats gonna tank them for sure.

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Shit machine gun

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« Reply #22 on: Nov 30, 2006, 09:05 PM »
Yeah but who else can we elect.  NDP would be interesting but they really have no chance.  It's either bob rae or Ignatieff.  Can they be any better than fucking paul martin or stevie harp?

trailerchick

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« Reply #23 on: Nov 30, 2006, 09:09 PM »

Now I hate the Con victs as much as well a lot of you, but I do like that they are taking care of our military, funding despretly needed. Aside from that they fail in my books.


Jonny

I like beefed up funding as well, to a limit. I want our military personnel given the best equipment possible.And when their service is done I also want to see them pensioned off generously.And should they die in service, their families should be well taken care of. But if we are using the money just so we can jump into everyworld conflict when George says Boo! then I have some problems with it.

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« Reply #24 on: Dec 01, 2006, 12:44 AM »
Thank you for " go(ing) on and on " TC . I wanted to chime in , but did not have the time nor the energy , and besides , no one tells it like you do Sister!

Harper reeks of GWB's ass , and GWB reeks of corporate American global agenda. Why play along with the bullies who have angered so many peoples of the world. The only reason that we need to expand our military , beyond protecting our geographic borders , is to put our asses on the line for another countries greedy agendas...
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